Curse

Phades · Aug 09, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Each skill costs at least 5 energy, some as high as 25. Fear me at best without runes will be -3 energy after 4 strikes of a weapon.

Throw on FGJ, every two strikes they lose 3 energy.

After you FGJ, you throw up Flurry every 5 seconds so for 15 seconds you're spamming Fear Me at an alarming rate.

Now, lets throw in a Quickening Zepyhr. All skills cost 30% more energy.

Now wouldn't that make every spellcaster fairly angry?

Its not so much the skill alone or how it combines with others, its merly a reflection upon warrior counters in general. It would be nice if there was a reason to have high tactics skill, making this skill scale up better at the top, but meh whatever. The methods to cripple a warrior can and do cover more than one target or prevent the warrior from doing anything to any target.

In your particular example, how much difference would the pure warrior provide versus a me/w devoting half his slots to feame, echo, arcane, frenzy and the other half to whatever else would be useful. Survival rates aside, the mesmer would be able to drain just as much or more, while still retaining other skills allowing other classes to focus on damage dealing.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 09, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Its not so much the skill alone or how it combines with others, its merly a reflection upon warrior counters in general. It would be nice if there was a reason to have high tactics skill, making this skill scale up better at the top, but meh whatever. The methods to cripple a warrior can and do cover more than one target or prevent the warrior from doing anything to any target.

In your particular example, how much difference would the pure warrior provide versus a me/w devoting half his slots to feame, echo, arcane, frenzy and the other half to whatever else would be useful. Survival rates aside, the mesmer would be able to drain just as much or more, while still retaining other skills allowing other classes to focus on damage dealing.

Not well, But why would a Mes/W be soloing a War in the first place? And if the war was using savage slash and hundered blades with fear me I'd give that mes about 10 secconds to live. A mes that ran into an enemy party to shout fear me would last about 3 secconds. Tactics is a great and DAMN powerful line. And NOT just for counters.

Fear me effects an area. I've said enough in this disccusion. It's powerful enough and Anet won't change it.

Racthoh · Aug 09, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Its not so much the skill alone or how it combines with others, its merly a reflection upon warrior counters in general. It would be nice if there was a reason to have high tactics skill, making this skill scale up better at the top, but meh whatever. The methods to cripple a warrior can and do cover more than one target or prevent the warrior from doing anything to any target.

In your particular example, how much difference would the pure warrior provide versus a me/w devoting half his slots to feame, echo, arcane, frenzy and the other half to whatever else would be useful. Survival rates aside, the mesmer would be able to drain just as much or more, while still retaining other skills allowing other classes to focus on damage dealing.

Regarding tactics, it is the best skill tree for warriors in my opinion. Great defensive skills (Gladiator's and Bonetti's), brutal offense (Thrill of Victory and Desperation Blow), not mention the healing capabilities of Healing Signet. The number of times that skill has saved me at 16 tactics, I love it. And this is just to name a few.

It is easy to cripple a warrior, but pretty much every secondary class can counter that. Ranger, Antidote Signet. Necro has Plague Touch (how my enemies hate plague touch), and monk has a many skills to remove ailments.

A pure warrior running fear me against a me/w? Let me ask you this, suppose you are a monk. A warrior is attacking you as always, hardly making a dent in your health, but not even realizing the alarming rate in which your energy is dropping? Sure if you see a mesmer primary you're going to expect it. But with flurry/frenzy triggering Fear Me you're left defenseless, and probably bewildered as to what just happened. Yes the mesmer could devote his other skills to dealing damage, but Fear Me is part of the Tactics section because of it's tactical nature, as the name suggests. It is simply a different way of halting a monk in his/her tracks.

Also that warrior can still do Fear Me on your me/w, charge his adrenaline skills and destroy your me/w who is using those mesmer damage dealing spells. Afterall, the warrior will have the higher AL.

The Mighty Toe · Aug 09, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Why not have Fear Me altered, so that as well as draining x amount of energy from your enemy, for x amount of energy your foe loses, you gain y amount of adrenaline?

These are just the idea's of a sad, sad toe so feel free to flame them if you wish

johnnylange · Aug 09, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Since fear me! requires 4 adrinaline, this gives spell casters a big enough window of time to counter battle. Mesmer(s) could use Soothing Images to stop them from charging this up, along with other adrinaline using skills.

MCS · Aug 09, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

Since fear me! requires 4 adrinaline, this gives spell casters a big enough window of time to counter battle. Mesmer(s) could use Soothing Images to stop them from charging this up, along with other adrinaline using skills.

And then a monk could REMOVE this HEX....

johnnylange · Aug 09, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

And then a monk could REMOVE this HEX....

But the mes was smart enough to cast Back Fire on the monk... or the Mes uses shatter hex on the Mes who casted soothing images which deals lots of damage... But then the blah, blah, blah...blah, blah, blah.

Well, it's good to know that there are "blah, blah, blah" strategies out there for every "And then..." strategies. lol

Anyway, you kids will have to do better than that...I haven't read a convincing argument yet. All i'm hearing is a lot of blah, blah, blah...

I still think Fear Me! is underpowered. Call me what you like...i'm having fun with this thread.

Ishamael Sedai · Aug 09, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

I think Fear Me! for Warriors could use a mega boost of strength! With 11 in tatics you only put out an energy drain of 3!

C'mon let's raise the bar on this!

Well you don't have to have 11 in tactics. You only need 8 to get the 3 energy drain from fear me. One thing to remember is how powerful word of healing is. A monk can get what close to a 200 pt heal after divine favor from a 5 pt spell. You have to think of 2 fear me's equal one less word of healing. Plus if you are around lets say 3 enemies you can really see how powerful this skill is. You are draining 9 energy for a fairly cheap 4 adr. skill that can almost be spammed. Hit 2 monks in a ward w/ two fear me's and that equals 400 pts less of healing.

I use this in context of a smiting build where I am spamming 4 adr. skills to do the 37 aoe dmg. In that build it is useful anyway as a dmg skill so the 3 is kind of a nice bonus.

Phades · Aug 09, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Regarding tactics, it is the best skill tree for warriors in my opinion. Great defensive skills (Gladiator's and Bonetti's), brutal offense (Thrill of Victory and Desperation Blow), not mention the healing capabilities of Healing Signet. The number of times that skill has saved me at 16 tactics, I love it. And this is just to name a few.

It is easy to cripple a warrior, but pretty much every secondary class can counter that. Ranger, Antidote Signet. Necro has Plague Touch (how my enemies hate plague touch), and monk has a many skills to remove ailments.

A pure warrior running fear me against a me/w? Let me ask you this, suppose you are a monk. A warrior is attacking you as always, hardly making a dent in your health, but not even realizing the alarming rate in which your energy is dropping? Sure if you see a mesmer primary you're going to expect it. But with flurry/frenzy triggering Fear Me you're left defenseless, and probably bewildered as to what just happened. Yes the mesmer could devote his other skills to dealing damage, but Fear Me is part of the Tactics section because of it's tactical nature, as the name suggests. It is simply a different way of halting a monk in his/her tracks.

Also that warrior can still do Fear Me on your me/w, charge his adrenaline skills and destroy your me/w who is using those mesmer damage dealing spells. Afterall, the warrior will have the higher AL.

Its not about the mesmer dealing damage, its using the mesmer options to maximise the effect and lessening the one dimensional character playstyle and including a different character to specalize in dealing damage. This would be opposed to one character attempting to do both and keep conditions off him/herself, keep sprint/rush active, keep abilities to counter block/evade conditions, and so on.

My main point of contention was that many skills, including the tactics line, can be more useful to other classes than a warrior primary and the majority of them do not scale up as well as other attribute lines. For pve, ive never found a need to go beyond 12 tactics for stances, healing signet, charge and so on. For pvp, there are painfully few skills from that line that actually help a warrior primary in a team.

Aug 09, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Fear Me! has long been established as a top skill in the game. The AoE on the skill is 39 feet, aka Ward diameter. Either your not using math or you just havent played a good team spamming this to see how much this skill drains, to the point that it's -3 energy every second per Warrior. Or in ugly scenarios, 2 Warriors with Echo doing -12 energy in just under 2 seconds.

Zeru · Aug 09, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Fear Me is 4 energy at 13 tactics, where you want it to be of course if you're using this build.

It's easily in the top 3 energy denial skills in the game because regularly you can get 5-7 pips of energy degen from the echo/fear me setup, much much more if you are facing a spirit spamming team because fgj/cyclone/frenzy or flurry will let you spam them practically every second.

It's best use is to crack a healing ball, because it requires being spread close together for the seeds to be effective. Those 8 ranger healing spring teams don't stand a chance either; their energy will be locked at 0 so fast they'll be forced to move and abandon their best source of mass healing or sit there and die.

Though that's not to say that's its only use; it's still very powerful against normal setups, just absurdly good vs healing ball teams of any form.

Please try to understand how this type of build works before jumping to incorrect conclusions. And when debating a skills worth don't pull out this random bs like soothing images, which is definitely not part of the metagame at all (i,e practically no teams carry it), gets owned by NR, and is not really the best counter anyways unless you have a really hex heavy teambuild. There are lots of skill counters in this game but just because a couple skills hurt a particular setup does not in any way mean the skill is worthless or underpowered.

MCS · Aug 09, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Why are we even bothering to post. Just because the OP refuses to believe the simple fact that fear me owns :\.

Even if it didn't I demand point blank shot be buffed. No one uses it so it's underpowered. Better yet, read the wind, buffffff!

Willow · Aug 10, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Why, because SOOTHING IMAGES can shut it down!

Er... that hurts every adrenaline skill... Is "Soothing Images makes me cry" your answer to everything?

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 10, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

40 energy lost over 20 seconds...
...effectively 2 energy lost per second.
...effectively 6 pips of energy regeneration lost.
...in an AoE the size of a ward.

This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on this forum. Well, almost.

Maybe we should buff Sprint? Energy Drain? Disrupting Chop? Signet of Humility?

Eonwe · Aug 10, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

But the mes was smart enough to cast Back Fire on the monk... or the Mes uses shatter hex on the Mes who casted soothing images which deals lots of damage... But then the blah, blah, blah...blah, blah, blah.

Well, it's good to know that there are "blah, blah, blah" strategies out there for every "And then..." strategies. lol

Anyway, you kids will have to do better than that...I haven't read a convincing argument yet. All i'm hearing is a lot of blah, blah, blah...

I still think Fear Me! is underpowered. Call me what you like...i'm having fun with this thread.

Just stop posting, you don't have a clue.

ElderAtronach · Aug 10, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

We should buff Nature's Renewal. It's too weak. Really.

Racthoh · Aug 10, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Its not about the mesmer dealing damage, its using the mesmer options to maximise the effect and lessening the one dimensional character playstyle and including a different character to specalize in dealing damage. This would be opposed to one character attempting to do both and keep conditions off him/herself, keep sprint/rush active, keep abilities to counter block/evade conditions, and so on.

My main point of contention was that many skills, including the tactics line, can be more useful to other classes than a warrior primary and the majority of them do not scale up as well as other attribute lines. For pve, ive never found a need to go beyond 12 tactics for stances, healing signet, charge and so on. For pvp, there are painfully few skills from that line that actually help a warrior primary in a team.

Ah fair enough then. For me though I will always be tactics, probably because I use a sword over axe or hammer. Sword offers little in the way of skill choice, whereas tactics gives me everything I need. Now that I know the AoE of Fear Me I think I might give it a try.

For PvP if you disbelieve the usefulness of tactics on a primary warrior best hope you don't run into me.

UberRusty · Aug 10, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Ha.

Hahahaha hahaha hahahah ha ha. Haha hahahahahHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA!Q

Seron Dalar · Aug 10, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

If you want to buff a skill do it with the trash like rust

Now I'm not saying I use Rust, except occasionally when I'm screwing around in the Competition Arenas. But I am saying 6-second healing signets and 9-second rez sigs are funny.

johnnylange · Aug 10, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Just stop posting, you don't have a clue.

I strongly disagree. But, you're entitled to your whining as well.